Tuesday, April 24, 2007
In my latest observations, I’ve seen more talk on the Vtech situation. More sites have been built around Cho Seung-hui. One user, Vitafin, posted three sites around the Vtech killer but, as I clicked on the links, it led to a page that said the “site was not found”. Since the start of my observations, I’ve noticed that nothing is sacred in the world of ytmnd; everything is ripe for parody. Perhaps those “site not found” pages were on the money and there was an error trying to find the page or, quite possibly, the higher-ups of the site decided that the pages were in bad taste and purposely squashed them. If this is true, I find it to be interesting because it’s the first case of censorship I’ve seen on the site. A site were I’ve seen pictures of dead babies and mature gay porn (don’t ask). In any event, it is good to see that someone is watching over the users. Another interesting thing I’ve observed is a new advertisement on the front page of the site. It is an ad for a site called YFLY.COM. This caused a small stir causing users to complain about the ad. One user went on to call for a civil war within the ytmnd community. I cannot be sure if it was a joke or not, other users did not take it seriously, but it seems that any attempt to criticize the creator and/or maintainers of ytmnd usually fall on deaf ears. Yes, users have made statements about the ad and have made ytmnd sites about the ad. It seems that the only way users can get a point across to other users in the community is to make a site.
Monday, April 23, 2007
Conversation with zer0hue
Here's a conversation with art-minded YTMND user "zer0hue," drawn from a series of in-system "Private Messages." It's been edited for clarity and format, as it took place over several message and involved a lot of tangents about the meaning of art and voice actors.
Jeff E.:I'm very interested in what you think about the AV loop form, particularly in it's existence here. The goal of the project is to analyze the ways these forms of digital communication effect the way people communicate. The best example I can think of is how the comments, friend count, and Top 8 of Myspace effect how people communicate with and use that site.
If you don't really have any opinions on how the format effects the communication, that's fine. A perspective on the affordances of the form and how it's used at it's best, worst, most and least experimental, etc. would certainly be valuable.
zer0hue: I am very much a classicist, not by choice but simply by nature, and so my understanding of art is a product of another time. In contrast to modern understanding, art is not merely the result of creativity, though the two are intimately linked. Art must also possess a quality that speaks to the mind, or perhaps the spirit if such a thing exists. Most of my work speaks to the senses, but rarely satisfies the intellect, and so couldn’t really be considered art. However, there are more than a few fad sites and pop-culture junk movements that do have a tangible idea to them. It might be a terrible idea, which is why they often make for terrible art, but art is art regardless of the qualifier. By contrast, my sites are usually good at being what they are, even if what they are isn’t very good to begin with. I think of them as compelling entertainment, more unique and better-designed than your front page nonsense, but just as shallow all the same. Of course, most of these were made quite some time ago, and I’ve changed a great deal since then, but that’s another topic entirely.
If you’re looking for a good place to start on the subject of art and YTMND, I would suggest klasky’s conversation.ytmnd.com. You’ll notice some of my earlier thoughts expressed in the comments section, but the real draw are klasky, korf41, and others’ views on the matter. I have no great enchantment with art, as you should realize by now, but if you’re in the search of those who do, that’s where I would begin.
The second, and far less boring, aside is about the difference between the medium and its distribution. Film is a medium that AMC theaters disseminates. Looped media is a medium that YTMND disseminates. Though media is often synonymous with the channels of distribution, they are two very different things. If your focus is on YTMND as the distributor of looped media, and all the compelling business-model techno-babble within, there are better and more knowledgeable people than myself to interview. Really, it’s not terribly different from other user-generated content sites such as YouTube, where the front page is just as coveted, votes are just as polarized, and most every comment is typed by teeth chewing angrily on a keyboard with the caps-lock on. Since I’ve been here off-and-on since the beginning, I’ve witnessed all the many internal structural changes to the site itself. I still remember when it wasn’t uncommon for my sites to go months without receiving a single vote, and the only way to talk to users was to leave comments on their sites. I know there’s probably a great deal of meaning to all of this, to someone at least, but that person isn’t me. I’m much more fascinated by the medium of AV loops, which predated this site by many years and will exist long after this place is sold to the AOLGoogleSpace internet conglomerate and transformed into a viral ad farm. Oh wait...
JE: MasterSitsu made it sound like the user base is pretty fixated on their site scores. Do you agree, or is this just a certain portion of the population? Is there a minority that focuses on the quality of their work, as opposed to their scores?
zh: I don’t think most people are fixated on scores so much as the exposure that results from popularity. I know from experience that unless you have a sustained presence on the front page, very few people will find your sites. Obviously humorous, fad-driven sites will resonate the most with the user base and will usually do better than serious, creative sites. Therefore the amount of effort, creativity applied to a site is rarely reflected in its score.
I’m not a part of the YTMND community and never have been. Again, these questions are better asked to site staples such as MasterSitsu, xXWaspXx, etc.
JE: So you're saying people tend to leverage scores, often via fads, to increase their front-page visibility, and thereby gain fame. So fame is represented by numbers of votes, comments, and how junked up their PM inbox is. And those who put creativity into their work and try to make their sites original and thoughtfully composed are often ignored, lest they happen to inspire a new fad.
Thus, much like Newgrounds, YouTube, and MySpace, many users attempt to exploit the system for some degree of fame, irrespective of any creative drive, social responsibility (Unfunny Truth aside), or cultural value their products may lack. There are users who try to use the site's distribution for less superficial purposes, but their work often goes unnoticed under the waves of in-jokes and variations on tried-and-true themes.
zh:Your assessment is pretty spot on. The problem with this community and those like it is that it’s essentially engineered to promote popularity over creativity. As long as that remains, the creative will always be marginalized in favor of familiarity.
Jeff E.:I'm very interested in what you think about the AV loop form, particularly in it's existence here. The goal of the project is to analyze the ways these forms of digital communication effect the way people communicate. The best example I can think of is how the comments, friend count, and Top 8 of Myspace effect how people communicate with and use that site.
If you don't really have any opinions on how the format effects the communication, that's fine. A perspective on the affordances of the form and how it's used at it's best, worst, most and least experimental, etc. would certainly be valuable.
zer0hue: I am very much a classicist, not by choice but simply by nature, and so my understanding of art is a product of another time. In contrast to modern understanding, art is not merely the result of creativity, though the two are intimately linked. Art must also possess a quality that speaks to the mind, or perhaps the spirit if such a thing exists. Most of my work speaks to the senses, but rarely satisfies the intellect, and so couldn’t really be considered art. However, there are more than a few fad sites and pop-culture junk movements that do have a tangible idea to them. It might be a terrible idea, which is why they often make for terrible art, but art is art regardless of the qualifier. By contrast, my sites are usually good at being what they are, even if what they are isn’t very good to begin with. I think of them as compelling entertainment, more unique and better-designed than your front page nonsense, but just as shallow all the same. Of course, most of these were made quite some time ago, and I’ve changed a great deal since then, but that’s another topic entirely.
If you’re looking for a good place to start on the subject of art and YTMND, I would suggest klasky’s conversation.ytmnd.com. You’ll notice some of my earlier thoughts expressed in the comments section, but the real draw are klasky, korf41, and others’ views on the matter. I have no great enchantment with art, as you should realize by now, but if you’re in the search of those who do, that’s where I would begin.
The second, and far less boring, aside is about the difference between the medium and its distribution. Film is a medium that AMC theaters disseminates. Looped media is a medium that YTMND disseminates. Though media is often synonymous with the channels of distribution, they are two very different things. If your focus is on YTMND as the distributor of looped media, and all the compelling business-model techno-babble within, there are better and more knowledgeable people than myself to interview. Really, it’s not terribly different from other user-generated content sites such as YouTube, where the front page is just as coveted, votes are just as polarized, and most every comment is typed by teeth chewing angrily on a keyboard with the caps-lock on. Since I’ve been here off-and-on since the beginning, I’ve witnessed all the many internal structural changes to the site itself. I still remember when it wasn’t uncommon for my sites to go months without receiving a single vote, and the only way to talk to users was to leave comments on their sites. I know there’s probably a great deal of meaning to all of this, to someone at least, but that person isn’t me. I’m much more fascinated by the medium of AV loops, which predated this site by many years and will exist long after this place is sold to the AOLGoogleSpace internet conglomerate and transformed into a viral ad farm. Oh wait...
JE: MasterSitsu made it sound like the user base is pretty fixated on their site scores. Do you agree, or is this just a certain portion of the population? Is there a minority that focuses on the quality of their work, as opposed to their scores?
zh: I don’t think most people are fixated on scores so much as the exposure that results from popularity. I know from experience that unless you have a sustained presence on the front page, very few people will find your sites. Obviously humorous, fad-driven sites will resonate the most with the user base and will usually do better than serious, creative sites. Therefore the amount of effort, creativity applied to a site is rarely reflected in its score.
I’m not a part of the YTMND community and never have been. Again, these questions are better asked to site staples such as MasterSitsu, xXWaspXx, etc.
JE: So you're saying people tend to leverage scores, often via fads, to increase their front-page visibility, and thereby gain fame. So fame is represented by numbers of votes, comments, and how junked up their PM inbox is. And those who put creativity into their work and try to make their sites original and thoughtfully composed are often ignored, lest they happen to inspire a new fad.
Thus, much like Newgrounds, YouTube, and MySpace, many users attempt to exploit the system for some degree of fame, irrespective of any creative drive, social responsibility (Unfunny Truth aside), or cultural value their products may lack. There are users who try to use the site's distribution for less superficial purposes, but their work often goes unnoticed under the waves of in-jokes and variations on tried-and-true themes.
zh:Your assessment is pretty spot on. The problem with this community and those like it is that it’s essentially engineered to promote popularity over creativity. As long as that remains, the creative will always be marginalized in favor of familiarity.
Thursday, April 19, 2007
Observations in the light of Virginia Tech
April 19th
This week on the ytmnd, I expected to see people talking about the tragedy at Virginia Tech. Sure enough, not only were people talking about it in the forums but also some have created ytmnd sites about the killer Cho Seung-hui. A user on the forum has gone as far as to create a tag out of one of the pictures of the killer holding his guns. Users on the forums, mostly in the NSFW forum, joke about the incident as if it was nothing. This didn’t surprise me one bit. Comments left on the site www.nospoonvt.ytmnd.com, which depicts an image of Cho Seung-hui with the text “There is no spoon”, an obvious matrix reference, had mixed reactions. The first user to comment, freedomflakes, says, “VTech ytmnds are getting really gay. F”. The last comment on the page is by a user named Cho-Seung-Hui, most likely an alternate account crated by another user for a laugh, who simply posts, “lol”. I would not be surprised, a few weeks down the line when the VTech story dies down in the media, that this is turned into a fad. Nothing is sacred in the world of ytmnd. Anything can be used and manipulated and if a site elicits one “lol” from a user, everything is good and well.
This week on the ytmnd, I expected to see people talking about the tragedy at Virginia Tech. Sure enough, not only were people talking about it in the forums but also some have created ytmnd sites about the killer Cho Seung-hui. A user on the forum has gone as far as to create a tag out of one of the pictures of the killer holding his guns. Users on the forums, mostly in the NSFW forum, joke about the incident as if it was nothing. This didn’t surprise me one bit. Comments left on the site www.nospoonvt.ytmnd.com, which depicts an image of Cho Seung-hui with the text “There is no spoon”, an obvious matrix reference, had mixed reactions. The first user to comment, freedomflakes, says, “VTech ytmnds are getting really gay. F”. The last comment on the page is by a user named Cho-Seung-Hui, most likely an alternate account crated by another user for a laugh, who simply posts, “lol”. I would not be surprised, a few weeks down the line when the VTech story dies down in the media, that this is turned into a fad. Nothing is sacred in the world of ytmnd. Anything can be used and manipulated and if a site elicits one “lol” from a user, everything is good and well.
Monday, April 16, 2007
Conversation with MasterSitsu
Here's a conversation with high-profile YTMND user "MasterSitsu," drawn from a series of in-system "Private Messages." It's been edited only for format, as it took place over several message.
Jeff E.: How has user behavior in commenting, voting, and site creation changed since you first joined YTMND? Not so much in if it's become better or worse, but what behaviors have changed, and how?
MasterSitsu: since i registered September 05, the biggest change in voting are that a lot more people simply vote 1 or 5 instead of the full gamut of choice, which in the case of more well made/populist sites has inflated site ratings overall. it used to be only a dozen or so sites had ratings over 4 stars, but now there's a 4.4 or higher rated site almost every day. Its not necessarily due to quality in material - the younger the average ytmnd audience gets the more they are pleased with just about anything, and because of a specific change to the main page sites can now hold higher ratings. the front page used to have a 'top rated' section only, and if you had more than 10 votes and among the highest rated sites you'd be on it, and people would quickly downvote you because they didnt want some new site or site that wasnt among the best ever, on top rated. that is now gone, and we now have 'up and coming' which up to 300 votes allows sites to gain honest votes, sometimes votes based a curve vs. other sites made that day. so most new sites have more exposure and a better chance to be seen in the short term. in the long term there are new problems that make high rated sites 'disappear' but thats another story.
JE: How do you think the ability to vote on a site has effected the content of sites?
MS: the ability to vote and the existance of the top 15 on the main page is usually a big drive for many people. for some that makes people dumb down or overuse fads to appeal to the majority, for others it causes them to be more creative. it also causes the best material on the site to be posted around 10 pm or later for hopes of gaining enough views around our refresh period to get on top viewed. getting a high rated site or top rated or top viewed, etc. is more a motivational tool for newer users. the first couple times you get such recognition it seems like a big deal, but if it happens enough times its not
JE: How do you think the ability to comment on a site has effected the content of sites?
MS: most people comment to suck up, and only the jaded, the pretentious and the really dumb users tend to openly downvote on sites because a LOT of people are scared of revenge downvoting. but commenting (and voting) openly is important because it gets your name out there. if you dont vote or comment at all, even if you have a lot of high rated sites you may go unnoticed as a community member. the only other group who openly downvote comment are those with no sites, who can't be revenged, and who many times are alternate accounts of people who are too scared to leave negative comments under their real account.
JE: How have site sponsorships effected the content of sites? How did moving those sponsored sites up on the front page effect them?
MS: I dont think anything of sponsorships. you can't predict what will or won't be sponsored unless someone is trying to put together an event, and it has had minimal influence on content. the only time a sponsorship i really know has effected content was when I put up a contest for dewarmy.ytmnd.com - it was sponsored and as a result many knew of it and around 600 entries were made, far surpassing all user made contests before it. wiki.ytmnd.com/Dew_Army
so other than that, sponsorship is a way to force your taste on the front page. if you sponsor your own site regardless of its quality many people tend to get upset with it.
JE: How has the direct interaction between users changed?
MS: the YTMND forums used to have an influence on the main page when users like inkdrinker were around, forcing memes like Gay Fuel and Asiancopter into the lexicon. For a long time now they have had very little influence on the main page, even though I'm sure a couple people there would resent that notion (it is very true though). from there IRC was big on YTMND for a while when we had "YTMND Radio" a shoutcast where people would be on IRC all night talking to the DJs making requests/interacting. that was my first real jump into 'community' - from there the Ventrilo live talk community started up last year and for a while it was very big and very influential on the main page with the "Shoe on Head' fad being a big deal for example. It is now less so and even though many are still on it, they care less of main page issues and the direction of the site. Other forums in the past of YTMND users included AlmightyLOL and SavedbytheLOL. A forum of users who make noise sites called the "Forgot Poland Army" has become influential in both positive and negative ways on the site. And for a while stickam became popular amongst Ventrilo users. so really people shift back and forth with whatever technology is available. in some cases thats made groups cliquey which each have a couple hardliners that are dickheads.
JE: I have a partner lurking about the forums, and he tells me it's largely focused on complaining that no one posts in the forums and that they need a new NEDM. Is this creation of memes (fads) common discourse, or does this represent a small group of members trying to exploit the community's tendency to praise and "upvote" some fads?
MS: In my opinion the forums have always been lame, and are usually populated by eithe rpeople who want to be big fishes in a small pond, or by those who are too lazy to find the othe rYTMND communities. But each group can still be hive minded. The forums tried to make a 'new gay fuel' a while back called Jew Brew and it didnt take, for example. But every group occasionally does a forced meme to confuse front page users, whenever people have to come together to 'create' a fad it is usually a one day forced fad. There's only been a couple cases where a forced meme somehow caught on.
JE: What's the deal with upvoting and downvoting?
MS: If you upvote everything people will like you even if you suck. If you downvote everything people will hate you even if your sites are great. If its obvious to people you are downvoting with an alternate account (or accounts), you will be especially hated, even famous. People often make gimmick accounts to try and be famous on this site without actually doing anything. sometimes it works but there are so many now that they're simply a problem that has not been solved. everyone downvotes, most who complain about downvoters in general are hypocrites, but when people usually talk about 'downvoters' they mostly mean gimmicks and trolls, and most people can relate to that complaint.
JE: So you make it sound like just about everyone here orients their usage around each other's scores. Is that the case?
MS: not everyone. a large amount of people dont care or have no interest in YTMND as a community. its just a place for them to post gifs they found on forums that everyones seen a thousand times.
JE:So, they treat YTMND like 4chan? [4chan is a BBS community largely used to share and discuss found or original images. -Jeff] Do you think these people come from 4chan, or just every corner of the internet? And what could they think when they see blanks for zooming text and music?
MS: many ytmnders dont know how to make gifs or photoshops, but really want to make sites, so they steal images from 4chan and b3ta and other forums and dont bother checking if they've already been on YTMND. they usually dont cite. one or two real community members dont cite for some reason (like Kassius) and I dont know why.
these types of casual ytmnders will often vote 5 on stolen material or uncited material that comes from other places (such as rapistsearch.ytmnd.com = among the sites i hate most for this reason) becasue they simply dont knwo better or dont care about what this says about the community, and they also tend to not even read site thread comments to ever find out of something is stolen.
Jeff E.: How has user behavior in commenting, voting, and site creation changed since you first joined YTMND? Not so much in if it's become better or worse, but what behaviors have changed, and how?
MasterSitsu: since i registered September 05, the biggest change in voting are that a lot more people simply vote 1 or 5 instead of the full gamut of choice, which in the case of more well made/populist sites has inflated site ratings overall. it used to be only a dozen or so sites had ratings over 4 stars, but now there's a 4.4 or higher rated site almost every day. Its not necessarily due to quality in material - the younger the average ytmnd audience gets the more they are pleased with just about anything, and because of a specific change to the main page sites can now hold higher ratings. the front page used to have a 'top rated' section only, and if you had more than 10 votes and among the highest rated sites you'd be on it, and people would quickly downvote you because they didnt want some new site or site that wasnt among the best ever, on top rated. that is now gone, and we now have 'up and coming' which up to 300 votes allows sites to gain honest votes, sometimes votes based a curve vs. other sites made that day. so most new sites have more exposure and a better chance to be seen in the short term. in the long term there are new problems that make high rated sites 'disappear' but thats another story.
JE: How do you think the ability to vote on a site has effected the content of sites?
MS: the ability to vote and the existance of the top 15 on the main page is usually a big drive for many people. for some that makes people dumb down or overuse fads to appeal to the majority, for others it causes them to be more creative. it also causes the best material on the site to be posted around 10 pm or later for hopes of gaining enough views around our refresh period to get on top viewed. getting a high rated site or top rated or top viewed, etc. is more a motivational tool for newer users. the first couple times you get such recognition it seems like a big deal, but if it happens enough times its not
JE: How do you think the ability to comment on a site has effected the content of sites?
MS: most people comment to suck up, and only the jaded, the pretentious and the really dumb users tend to openly downvote on sites because a LOT of people are scared of revenge downvoting. but commenting (and voting) openly is important because it gets your name out there. if you dont vote or comment at all, even if you have a lot of high rated sites you may go unnoticed as a community member. the only other group who openly downvote comment are those with no sites, who can't be revenged, and who many times are alternate accounts of people who are too scared to leave negative comments under their real account.
JE: How have site sponsorships effected the content of sites? How did moving those sponsored sites up on the front page effect them?
MS: I dont think anything of sponsorships. you can't predict what will or won't be sponsored unless someone is trying to put together an event, and it has had minimal influence on content. the only time a sponsorship i really know has effected content was when I put up a contest for dewarmy.ytmnd.com - it was sponsored and as a result many knew of it and around 600 entries were made, far surpassing all user made contests before it. wiki.ytmnd.com/Dew_Army
so other than that, sponsorship is a way to force your taste on the front page. if you sponsor your own site regardless of its quality many people tend to get upset with it.
JE: How has the direct interaction between users changed?
MS: the YTMND forums used to have an influence on the main page when users like inkdrinker were around, forcing memes like Gay Fuel and Asiancopter into the lexicon. For a long time now they have had very little influence on the main page, even though I'm sure a couple people there would resent that notion (it is very true though). from there IRC was big on YTMND for a while when we had "YTMND Radio" a shoutcast where people would be on IRC all night talking to the DJs making requests/interacting. that was my first real jump into 'community' - from there the Ventrilo live talk community started up last year and for a while it was very big and very influential on the main page with the "Shoe on Head' fad being a big deal for example. It is now less so and even though many are still on it, they care less of main page issues and the direction of the site. Other forums in the past of YTMND users included AlmightyLOL and SavedbytheLOL. A forum of users who make noise sites called the "Forgot Poland Army" has become influential in both positive and negative ways on the site. And for a while stickam became popular amongst Ventrilo users. so really people shift back and forth with whatever technology is available. in some cases thats made groups cliquey which each have a couple hardliners that are dickheads.
JE: I have a partner lurking about the forums, and he tells me it's largely focused on complaining that no one posts in the forums and that they need a new NEDM. Is this creation of memes (fads) common discourse, or does this represent a small group of members trying to exploit the community's tendency to praise and "upvote" some fads?
MS: In my opinion the forums have always been lame, and are usually populated by eithe rpeople who want to be big fishes in a small pond, or by those who are too lazy to find the othe rYTMND communities. But each group can still be hive minded. The forums tried to make a 'new gay fuel' a while back called Jew Brew and it didnt take, for example. But every group occasionally does a forced meme to confuse front page users, whenever people have to come together to 'create' a fad it is usually a one day forced fad. There's only been a couple cases where a forced meme somehow caught on.
JE: What's the deal with upvoting and downvoting?
MS: If you upvote everything people will like you even if you suck. If you downvote everything people will hate you even if your sites are great. If its obvious to people you are downvoting with an alternate account (or accounts), you will be especially hated, even famous. People often make gimmick accounts to try and be famous on this site without actually doing anything. sometimes it works but there are so many now that they're simply a problem that has not been solved. everyone downvotes, most who complain about downvoters in general are hypocrites, but when people usually talk about 'downvoters' they mostly mean gimmicks and trolls, and most people can relate to that complaint.
JE: So you make it sound like just about everyone here orients their usage around each other's scores. Is that the case?
MS: not everyone. a large amount of people dont care or have no interest in YTMND as a community. its just a place for them to post gifs they found on forums that everyones seen a thousand times.
JE:So, they treat YTMND like 4chan? [4chan is a BBS community largely used to share and discuss found or original images. -Jeff] Do you think these people come from 4chan, or just every corner of the internet? And what could they think when they see blanks for zooming text and music?
MS: many ytmnders dont know how to make gifs or photoshops, but really want to make sites, so they steal images from 4chan and b3ta and other forums and dont bother checking if they've already been on YTMND. they usually dont cite. one or two real community members dont cite for some reason (like Kassius) and I dont know why.
these types of casual ytmnders will often vote 5 on stolen material or uncited material that comes from other places (such as rapistsearch.ytmnd.com = among the sites i hate most for this reason) becasue they simply dont knwo better or dont care about what this says about the community, and they also tend to not even read site thread comments to ever find out of something is stolen.
Sunday, April 15, 2007
More observations
April 15th
Not much has changed in the forums. One user, decrumpit123, made a mistake of asking what other users would refer to as a stupid question. He/she asked about a song on one of the ytmnd sites. No user took it upon them to help him/her out. Another user, Pronoun, decided to clarify things by saying, “WHAT ARE WE A FCKING HELP KIOSK THERES A FUCKING THRED WHER U ASK THIS SHIT AND BESIDES THIS IS "GENERAL CHAT" NOT "ASK DUMBASS QUESTIONS TO SIX PEOPLE WHO DONT GIVE A SHIT" AND WE AR HERE TO DISCUS YOURE MAN NOW DOG THE SO TAKE UR FUCKING QUESTIONS ELSEWHERE AND IF I SEE U MAKE ONE MORE THREAD LIKE THIS UR IN BIG DOODOO GOT IT?????? FUCK THIS THREAD NOBODY BETTER FUCKING POST AFTER ME.” This is consistent with the board’s elitist attitude that was brought up in my previous entry. In another instance, a new user called Woldieslayer inquired about what to do about the domain and URL as he/she was having a problem. Once again, Pronoun chimed in with, “God, learn to internet.” In the NSFW forum, which is where Woldieslayer first posted this question, he/she was also not helped but in a more devious way. In response to Woldieslayer’s inquiry, two users posted links to other threads on the forum. Each user added a “welcome to the forum” greeting probably as way for Woldieslayer to drop his/her guard. I will not go into detail of what the links were actually links of but I will say that it wouldn’t have answered Woldieslayer’s question. I suppose all of this could be considered as a form of hazing for the new people.
Not much has changed in the forums. One user, decrumpit123, made a mistake of asking what other users would refer to as a stupid question. He/she asked about a song on one of the ytmnd sites. No user took it upon them to help him/her out. Another user, Pronoun, decided to clarify things by saying, “WHAT ARE WE A FCKING HELP KIOSK THERES A FUCKING THRED WHER U ASK THIS SHIT AND BESIDES THIS IS "GENERAL CHAT" NOT "ASK DUMBASS QUESTIONS TO SIX PEOPLE WHO DONT GIVE A SHIT" AND WE AR HERE TO DISCUS YOURE MAN NOW DOG THE SO TAKE UR FUCKING QUESTIONS ELSEWHERE AND IF I SEE U MAKE ONE MORE THREAD LIKE THIS UR IN BIG DOODOO GOT IT?????? FUCK THIS THREAD NOBODY BETTER FUCKING POST AFTER ME.” This is consistent with the board’s elitist attitude that was brought up in my previous entry. In another instance, a new user called Woldieslayer inquired about what to do about the domain and URL as he/she was having a problem. Once again, Pronoun chimed in with, “God, learn to internet.” In the NSFW forum, which is where Woldieslayer first posted this question, he/she was also not helped but in a more devious way. In response to Woldieslayer’s inquiry, two users posted links to other threads on the forum. Each user added a “welcome to the forum” greeting probably as way for Woldieslayer to drop his/her guard. I will not go into detail of what the links were actually links of but I will say that it wouldn’t have answered Woldieslayer’s question. I suppose all of this could be considered as a form of hazing for the new people.
Wednesday, April 11, 2007
YTMND observations
Well this is my first post for this project. Observing YTMND.COM has been interesting to say the least. I've been monitoring the forums on and off since the end of March but I did not start taking notes until April. I'll post what I’ve observed then I’ll make updates every couple of days if it is possible.
At first, I started to lurk on the ytmnd sfw (safe for work) forums. One of the first things I can remember observing was that of the users complaining about how no one post in the sfw forum anymore. Posts and replies are hours apart, which is in stark contrast for the nsfw (not safe for work) forums in which posts and replies are minutes apart.
As far as content goes, the topics discussed in the sfw and nsfw forums do not differ that much. The nsfw forums give users more freedom to say whatever they want (and they do!) while the users in the sfw forums show some restraint.
There are users who follow the rules of the site but some other users in the forums fall under certain categories:
1. Parasite - A person who rips off another's ytmnd site and resubmits it as their own.
2. Troll - An attention getter. A user who does malicious things to get attention i.e. - posting shock sites, annoyingly posting the same image over and over, or a combination.
3. Upvoters/Downvoters - Some users create alternate user profiles in order to either upvote, vote for his/her own sites in order to boost his/her rating. Upvoting can be considered as a buffer for when people who downvote, users who create alternate accounts so he/she can give low ratings to other users multiple times. Both are frowned upon but it does not stop the users.
4. NARV (New Age Retard Voter) - referring to users, usually new users, who have a minimal understanding of ytmnd's history, culture, or artifacts that define the tone of ytmnd.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
April 1st
Only four threads were made in the SFW forums today. Only one of the threads had a number of replies, which was about alternate accounts and what users should do with them. Moderators got involved leading several users to delete their alt. accounts. What I observed within that thread was that even though the structure of the forum maybe extremely loose, the mods are checking in and enforcing the rules of the ytmnd.com. Other than that, it was a slow day in the NSFW forum.
April 5th
More threads have been made per day since a few days ago. It is still nothing compared to the NSFW forums though. It seems that users, probably along the lines of the newer users, use the SFW forum to ask questions about how to create things for ytmnd. It probably seems like a safer place to post their questions rather than post question in the NSFW forum and get flamed. It is the same result in the SFW forum though. Users will get their questions answered but not without a smart-ass comment or put down. In addition, from another thread, I learned that most of the users on the SFW forum think the forum itself is pathetic. I don't know why they bother to post in that forum if they don’t like it. Maybe the users have been posting there so long they can't stop, almost like a force of habit.
April 7th
Today, as requested by Jeff, I went and observed the comments on the numerous ytmnd sites. It was hard to pick out which one to check out since there are many. I ended up on a site that had an interesting comment. On www.burntandroidtoast.ytmnd.com, a user by the name of Scottendo responds to another user who points out what little sense the site makes, "There is no point, this is an ytmnd. Is there ever a point to an ytmnd? I make them for fun." Then another user, Mattdh12 goes on to comment on the rating system that ytmnd utilizes saying, "Lets base how funny a site is by its rating, especially on a user who must get revenge 1'd like crazy. Ratings mean jack." It is interesting to see that some of the users don't rely on the ratings system to decide what is good.
April 9th
Once again, in the SFW forum, I observe that the users complain about the postings and the content. User xXYellowJacketXx mentions,” I’m primarily on NSFW. I'm here trying to help these people out and make this forum something that sucks slightly less, but I keep getting held back by DA MAN." Again, users complain yet they still post. Today I also visited the NSFW forum. The name of the forum definitely describes the content that lies with in. Swearing is widely accepted in both forums but much more is tolerated in NSFW including pornographic pictures, pictures of dead things, a disturbing picture of a dead baby, etc. Needless to say, there was an overflowing of pretty much useless threads but today I saw six threads about the same thing: some users named Adair. Apparently, a number of users have a problem with him. Numerous users suggested that he be placed on Faggot Patrol or fp as they abbreviate. After a little digging, I found out that faggot patrol was not just some sort of insult. It is also the name of a group of users under the moderators of the NSFW forum. Whether or not it is a good thing, I have yet to find out.
April 10th
Today in the SFW forum, moderator drunkpuppies took it upon himself to crate a thread warning the users of the forum to stop being overly crude to one another. If the users fail to comply, he said he would track them down and, "own them like they've never been owned before on an internet forum." If you are familiar with the term "owned" then you know it is a threat. xXWASPXx, another moderator, also chimed in after user xXYellowJacketXx tries to defend his crudeness. According to xXWASPXx, users like xXYellowjacketXx are the problem because of the blatant elitism that he/she as well as other users put upon the newer users of the forum. I feel it is all for nothing because I’ve yet to see any threat by a moderator to be taken seriously. In the NSFW forum, another similar situation played out only a user, called spheny1, calls out the other users to stop making threads that don't mean anything. Responds to this request made that thread into the very thing it was calling out against. It seem that there is not a lot of sense in these forums.
At first, I started to lurk on the ytmnd sfw (safe for work) forums. One of the first things I can remember observing was that of the users complaining about how no one post in the sfw forum anymore. Posts and replies are hours apart, which is in stark contrast for the nsfw (not safe for work) forums in which posts and replies are minutes apart.
As far as content goes, the topics discussed in the sfw and nsfw forums do not differ that much. The nsfw forums give users more freedom to say whatever they want (and they do!) while the users in the sfw forums show some restraint.
There are users who follow the rules of the site but some other users in the forums fall under certain categories:
1. Parasite - A person who rips off another's ytmnd site and resubmits it as their own.
2. Troll - An attention getter. A user who does malicious things to get attention i.e. - posting shock sites, annoyingly posting the same image over and over, or a combination.
3. Upvoters/Downvoters - Some users create alternate user profiles in order to either upvote, vote for his/her own sites in order to boost his/her rating. Upvoting can be considered as a buffer for when people who downvote, users who create alternate accounts so he/she can give low ratings to other users multiple times. Both are frowned upon but it does not stop the users.
4. NARV (New Age Retard Voter) - referring to users, usually new users, who have a minimal understanding of ytmnd's history, culture, or artifacts that define the tone of ytmnd.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
April 1st
Only four threads were made in the SFW forums today. Only one of the threads had a number of replies, which was about alternate accounts and what users should do with them. Moderators got involved leading several users to delete their alt. accounts. What I observed within that thread was that even though the structure of the forum maybe extremely loose, the mods are checking in and enforcing the rules of the ytmnd.com. Other than that, it was a slow day in the NSFW forum.
April 5th
More threads have been made per day since a few days ago. It is still nothing compared to the NSFW forums though. It seems that users, probably along the lines of the newer users, use the SFW forum to ask questions about how to create things for ytmnd. It probably seems like a safer place to post their questions rather than post question in the NSFW forum and get flamed. It is the same result in the SFW forum though. Users will get their questions answered but not without a smart-ass comment or put down. In addition, from another thread, I learned that most of the users on the SFW forum think the forum itself is pathetic. I don't know why they bother to post in that forum if they don’t like it. Maybe the users have been posting there so long they can't stop, almost like a force of habit.
April 7th
Today, as requested by Jeff, I went and observed the comments on the numerous ytmnd sites. It was hard to pick out which one to check out since there are many. I ended up on a site that had an interesting comment. On www.burntandroidtoast.ytmnd.com, a user by the name of Scottendo responds to another user who points out what little sense the site makes, "There is no point, this is an ytmnd. Is there ever a point to an ytmnd? I make them for fun." Then another user, Mattdh12 goes on to comment on the rating system that ytmnd utilizes saying, "Lets base how funny a site is by its rating, especially on a user who must get revenge 1'd like crazy. Ratings mean jack." It is interesting to see that some of the users don't rely on the ratings system to decide what is good.
April 9th
Once again, in the SFW forum, I observe that the users complain about the postings and the content. User xXYellowJacketXx mentions,” I’m primarily on NSFW. I'm here trying to help these people out and make this forum something that sucks slightly less, but I keep getting held back by DA MAN." Again, users complain yet they still post. Today I also visited the NSFW forum. The name of the forum definitely describes the content that lies with in. Swearing is widely accepted in both forums but much more is tolerated in NSFW including pornographic pictures, pictures of dead things, a disturbing picture of a dead baby, etc. Needless to say, there was an overflowing of pretty much useless threads but today I saw six threads about the same thing: some users named Adair. Apparently, a number of users have a problem with him. Numerous users suggested that he be placed on Faggot Patrol or fp as they abbreviate. After a little digging, I found out that faggot patrol was not just some sort of insult. It is also the name of a group of users under the moderators of the NSFW forum. Whether or not it is a good thing, I have yet to find out.
April 10th
Today in the SFW forum, moderator drunkpuppies took it upon himself to crate a thread warning the users of the forum to stop being overly crude to one another. If the users fail to comply, he said he would track them down and, "own them like they've never been owned before on an internet forum." If you are familiar with the term "owned" then you know it is a threat. xXWASPXx, another moderator, also chimed in after user xXYellowJacketXx tries to defend his crudeness. According to xXWASPXx, users like xXYellowjacketXx are the problem because of the blatant elitism that he/she as well as other users put upon the newer users of the forum. I feel it is all for nothing because I’ve yet to see any threat by a moderator to be taken seriously. In the NSFW forum, another similar situation played out only a user, called spheny1, calls out the other users to stop making threads that don't mean anything. Responds to this request made that thread into the very thing it was calling out against. It seem that there is not a lot of sense in these forums.
Wednesday, April 4, 2007
Herein Lies...
Herein shall be a log of knowledge over the ways in which the technology has shaped it's vibrant and unique community. It will include observations by Aaron Herrera, who is only just discovering the world of YTMND, and interviews collected by myself, Jeff Edwards. It will culminate in several posts summing the impacts the technical design of YTMND on it's community.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)